Posts by Doug Mason

24

When or how did YHWH get pierced?

by Tyre in

i can't found any topic in this forum about this verse.

may be you can enlightened me.. zec 12:10 and i will pour out on the house of david and the inhabitants of jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication.

they will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Doug Mason

We need to make certain that we do not look at this passage in Zechariah through the eyes of our understanding of the death of Jesus/Yeshua.

Listen for that voice inside your head that is saying, "if you understand Zechariah in such-and-such a way, then look at the implications that will have on your understanding of the nature of Jesus".

Look solely at the local, immediate and direct meaning of the passage, ignoring what John wrote later. His was the last "gospel" written, and was the first to make use of this passage from Zechariah.

Jesus' disciples were faced with the reality that their Leader, instead of leading them as the Messiah to overthrow the Roman overlord had instead been put to death by the Romans. How could they make sense of this? What they did was, as Paul wrote, was to "search the [Hebrew] Scriptures".

In the process, the Christian writers mangled passages to produce stories and explanations that satisfied their concerns. The Jews complained that they were misusing passages that were intended for Jews living at an earlier time. (This developing animosity, in turn, resulted in the later NT writers inserting anti-Semitic sentiments - "his blood be on us and on our children".)

Passages such as this one in Zechariah had an immediate and local application, yet were reworked into stories composed of similarly manipulated texts from the Hebrew Scriptures.

If you do not find those thoughts too challenging and are not frightened to investigate challenging ideas, then I invite you to read a chapter from a book which I have uploaded to:

http://www.jwstudies.com/Spong__Jesus_for_the_Non-religious.pdf

Doug

2

Separating the threat to destroy Jerusalem from the Seventy Years

by Doug Mason in

a comment was made that i should have used a better title for my previous thread to make its intent clear.

i am always happy to accept advice.. so here is that post under its new heading.. doug.

a short while ago i provided a 20-page study showing that the destruction of jerusalem was avoidable whereas the seventy years could not be avoided.. i have produced a 4-page condensed version of that study, and it is available at:.

Doug Mason

Hi,

A comment was made that I should have used a better title for my previous thread to make its intent clear. I am always happy to accept advice.

So here is that post under its new heading.

Doug

--------------------

A short while ago I provided a 20-page Study showing that the Destruction of Jerusalem was avoidable whereas the Seventy Years could not be avoided.

I have produced a 4-page condensed version of that Study, and it is available at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/What_the_Bible_really_says_about_Jerusalem_s_destruction.pdf

3

A condensed version

by Doug Mason in

a short while ago i provided a 20-page study showing that the destruction of jerusalem was avoidable whereas the seventy years could not be avoided.. i have produced a 4-page condensed version of that study, and it is available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/what_the_bible_really_says_about_jerusalem_s_destruction.pdf.

doug.

Doug Mason

A short while ago I provided a 20-page Study showing that the Destruction of Jerusalem was avoidable whereas the Seventy Years could not be avoided.

I have produced a 4-page condensed version of that Study, and it is available at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/What_the_Bible_really_says_about_Jerusalem_s_destruction.pdf

Doug

4

Did Jews exit Judah 2 months after Jerusalem's destruction?

by Doug Mason in

the watchtower magazine says jews entered egypt within two months of jerusalem being razed by nebuchadnezzar.. .

is it possible that all the events recorded in the bible could have taken place during those two months?.

it is crucial for the watchtower that they did.

Doug Mason

The Watchtower magazine says Jews entered Egypt within two months of Jerusalem being razed by Nebuchadnezzar.

Is it possible that all the events recorded in the Bible could have taken place during those two months?

It is crucial for the Watchtower that they did. The Watchtower starts the “Seventy Years” from the moment the Jews left Judah and entered Egypt, making this a critical pivotal date for the Watchtower.

http://www.jwstudies.com/Did_Jews_exit_after_two_months.pdf

Doug

11

"All Scripture is inspired of God and Beneficial" .....

by smiddy in

did you just take that scripture at face value ?

beleiving it to be so ?.

was" all scripture is inspired by god" written down at that one time ?

Doug Mason

Some relevant books in my library:

"First Bible of the Church: A Plea for the Septuagint", Mogens Muller, Sheffield Academic Press ISBN 1-85075-571-X

"Biblical Exegesis in the Apostolic Period", Richard Lengenecker, Eerdmans

"Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament", Beale and Carson (editors), Baker Academic and Appolos (IVP), UK ISBN 978-1-84474-196-0

Doug

11

"All Scripture is inspired of God and Beneficial" .....

by smiddy in

did you just take that scripture at face value ?

beleiving it to be so ?.

was" all scripture is inspired by god" written down at that one time ?

Doug Mason

Firstly, the OT and NT books were not canonised for some time after that passage was written.

Secondly, the writings the young "Timothy" had been reading were the Jewish writings.

Thirdly, it is most ironic, since the book known as 2 Timothy is a fraud. It was not written by Paul but by someone pretending to be him. So it was written by a forger, a lier. So much for "inspiration".

Doug

26

Compilation of the bible and the NWT translation source.

by trailerfitter in

hi,, i have a curious question about when the bible was actually compiled.

from what i understand it was actually compiled under emperor constantines request in the 4th century ad.

this was the nicene creed.. i also am aware that there quite a few books that were considered for inclusion but weren't.

Doug Mason

I don't think it is wise to mention Mantey, given the fact that he wrote to the WTS and demanded a written apology for the way they had misused his work.

You will see his letter in "The Scholastic Dishonesty of the Watchtower", Michael Buskirk, CARIS

Doug

26

Compilation of the bible and the NWT translation source.

by trailerfitter in

hi,, i have a curious question about when the bible was actually compiled.

from what i understand it was actually compiled under emperor constantines request in the 4th century ad.

this was the nicene creed.. i also am aware that there quite a few books that were considered for inclusion but weren't.

Doug Mason

Wonderment,

Thanks for that information. Most interesting.

The Hebrew Scripture citations used by the NT writers were predominantly from one of the LXX versions, and that included words coming from Jesus. ("Biblical Exegesis in the Apostolic Period", Longnecker)

Of course we must always be careful that we do not think there was just one version of the LXX.

I presume therefore that their translation of Jeremiah 25 reflects the MT, rather than the alternate reading of the LXX.

Doug

10

"Bible Chronology" and the "Seventy Years"

by Doug Mason in

to arrive at its date of 607 bce for jerusalems destruction, the wts uses what it calls bible chronology.. this bible chronology says that since the seventy year period ended in 537 bce, when 70 years are counted back this provides the 607 bce date for jerusalems destruction.. the wts says its bible chronology method is superior to the secular uninspired chronology provided by secular sources.. does the wtss bible chronology align with the bibles teachings on the seventy years?

is its method the valid way to determine when jerusalem was destroyed?.

these matters are discussed in my study, which is available at:.

Doug Mason

Larry,

I fail to understand how you could write the following after reading my Study:

"We all agree that the 70 years end with the return to Jerusalem in the 1st year of Cyrus."

As I write above, I do not agree with that position because I do not believe that is what the Bible writers stated.

Where in my Study did you get the idea that I thought the Seventy Years ended with the return of Jews to Jerusalem?

When did the Seventy Years end for the other nations?

Doug

10

"Bible Chronology" and the "Seventy Years"

by Doug Mason in

to arrive at its date of 607 bce for jerusalems destruction, the wts uses what it calls bible chronology.. this bible chronology says that since the seventy year period ended in 537 bce, when 70 years are counted back this provides the 607 bce date for jerusalems destruction.. the wts says its bible chronology method is superior to the secular uninspired chronology provided by secular sources.. does the wtss bible chronology align with the bibles teachings on the seventy years?

is its method the valid way to determine when jerusalem was destroyed?.

these matters are discussed in my study, which is available at:.

Doug Mason

The following comes from Jeremiah, after he had said that all the nations would have to serve Babylon for 70 years:

All nations will serve him and his son and his grandson until the time for his land comes; then many nations and great kings will subjugate him.

If, however, any nation or kingdom will not serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon or bow its neck under his yoke, I will punish that nation with the sword, famine and plague, declares the LORD , until I destroy it by his hand.

So do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your interpreters of dreams, your mediums or your sorcerers who tell you, ‘You will not serve the king of Babylon.’ They prophesy lies to you that will only serve to remove you far from your lands; I will banish you and you will perish.

But if any nation will bow its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serve him, I will let that nation remain in its ownland to till it and to live there, declares the LORD .

[Jeremiah] gave the same message to Zedekiah king of Judah.

(Jeremiah 27:7-12, NIV)